annerb: (passion)
Add MemoryShare This Entry
posted by [personal profile] annerb at 08:17pm on 17/03/2008 under ,
How we read and how we judge...

I've been reading trashy romance novels for escapist reading since I was very young (The first time I picked one up I believe I was 12 and my mom made me promise not to read the sex scenes. Yeah, Mom, that worked. Really.)  I probably read something like four or five a month for the next decade or two, hiding them under my bed, borrowing them in bulk from my mom's stash of library honor books (yes, we have no honor. I am penitent, I swear.) 

Anyway, my point here is that I never thought about them much.  I could say which ones I liked and which ones I didn't so much.  I decided which one I might actually read again on a rainy day, and which ones I would forget about as soon as possible. 

Zoom forward to today and I'm on a much needed vacation and what's the first thing I do? Run out and buy the first trashy novel I can get my hands on.  What's interesting, though, is how my ability to read these books has changed.  I can still read them in about four or five hours of solid reading, but they just aren't the escapist pleasure they used to be because for some reason I can't turn my brain off as I read them.  I am hyper-critically aware of the characters the author is building, the settings, the pacing and plot decisions.  It's not even that I think they are bad, by any means, just that I am constantly aware of the choices the author has made in the story and sometimes I think about what changes they might have made, like my beta brain can no longer be turned off.

I still enjoy reading them, I'm just surprised how much my experience with both reading and writing fanfiction has essentially changed my reading habits.  It also got me thinking about this post I'd seen in metafandom the other day about what distinguishes a Grade A author from a Grade B author.  Now, those very definitions don't necessarily sit well with me, but it is an interesting question: What distinguishes what's good and what's excellent? 

I think the answer, at least for me, sits squarely in my new critical reading habits.  A good author entertains me and tells a good story.  I can not live without these good authors.  An excellent, blow-my-mind author?  I think the writing of an excellent story is a bit like the perpetration of a crime, or a good magic trick.  You can't leave any clues behind.  When I read an excellent story, the author somehow manages to hide all the craft of writing, leaving me with nothing but a story that completely envelops me and shuts my critical mind off.  These are the stories and novels that when I am done with them, I realize I never once thought about *how* it was written.   This is why I think the highest praise I can ever give a fic is: "I forgot I was reading a story."

I'll let you know if I ever find a trashy romance novel that does that. ;)
There are 11 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
ext_3557: annerb icon with scenes of all team variations, my OTP (Teal'c transcend)
posted by [identity profile] aurora-novarum.livejournal.com at 04:02am on 18/03/2008
I think the writing of an excellent story is a bit like the perpetration of a crime, or a good magic trick. You can't leave any clues behind.

This comment brought to mind something I heard on my local NPR station driving the other day. They were interviewing a mystery novelist (and I wish I remembered her name). She was talking about the skill of writing, and the different techniques for genres.

There's an author she just read. She didn't name the author, but she mentioned she's an excellent, award winning writer who this mystery novelist really respects. And the author did her first mystery. And the interviewee could tell whodunnit on page 17. The writer's language was beautiful, her characters well-developed, but her red herrings rang like church bells to someone who knew the technique. There's a skill a mystery writer develops, one the interviewee didn't claim she had mastered, but it's basically something that when you're good at it, the reader can't see behind the curtain.

This really doesn't have much to do with your post, but it came to mind as I was reading. How there's skills that develop, and a bit of a "language" of writing depending on what you're doing...not just a business paper v a legal paper v a newspaper story v a novel, but even how you develop and set up things and how you use words and create scenarios depending on the particular "story" you're trying to tell.
 
posted by [identity profile] annerbhp.livejournal.com at 12:20am on 19/03/2008
Yeah, I can't imagine trying to write mysteries (I don't read a lot of them, but usually I pick out the culprit pretty early.) It's an interesting thought, the need to master the genre as well as basic rules of writing. Although, you would think there'd be a higher chance of having someone write outside the box if they didn't come from the same genre background. Interesting.
 
posted by [identity profile] spiletta42.livejournal.com at 04:12am on 18/03/2008
I can't turn off my inner critic either when I read, and that definitely dictates what I choose to read. I read more and more non-fiction for that reason -- if I'm learning interesting facts I don't need to get upset over word choices or sentence structure.

Good hard science fiction sometimes works, because if I'm making even a half-assed effort to follow the math, it distracts from nitpicking the character development. Really great literature works, sort of, but I waste more time admiring the turn of phrase than getting caught up in the emotion. And novels based on television shows still get read, because picking on them mercilessly hones my character voices, but again, I can't get lost in the story.

When I read fanfic, I almost always spend most of the time mentally composing my feedback to the author. I'm almost entirely incapable of enjoying fanfic at this point, and read very little of it.

The first book on writing I ever read was by Lawrence Block, and he sternly warned that this would happen. But I wanted to write fiction more than I wanted to read it, so I carelessly threw away my ability to enjoy a novel.

I do the same with television shows and movies. Comic books are my last retreat, because I can't draw, and don't know anything about drawing that would make me pick apart the artwork, and the struggle to follow exactly what's going on when my mind wants to focus entirely on the words keeps the critical voice at least semi-quiet.
 
posted by [identity profile] shutthef-up.livejournal.com at 07:13am on 18/03/2008
It's late and I'm both thinky and sleepy.

In a lot of my fic, that's sort of what I strive for. I tend to think of it as sinking into a reader's brain without noticing the words. It's transparent.

I know I'm a long way from that and stuff like comment fic isn't conducive to that for me. But if I'm writing a longer story or a ficathon story, especially if it's a pairing fic, I really want to hit that as close as I can.

And once in a great while, I set a fic aside for awhile and come back to it and am a little amazed at what I've written. Once in a great while I write a great sentence and I just stare at it, thinking, "I wrote *that*?"

It's like going back and looking at college papers or technical papers I've written at different jobs and I've gone, "Geez, I actually knew all that stuff?" Of course then I feel kind of dumb in comparison, but whatever.
ext_962: (rick-leaning on wall)
posted by [identity profile] surreallis.livejournal.com at 10:08am on 18/03/2008
Yup. You're reading like a writer, something I've actually seen time and time again as advice from pro-writers. You need to 'learn' to do that, and that's the best way to evolve writing-wise. You learn to recognize what works for you and what doesn't. And I've never had any luck turning that part of my brain off. However, I'm *much* more aware of it with really bad writing and really good writing. Really good writing means I can enjoy the story anyway, it's just that I also notice all the great structure and techniques. Really bad writing I only notice the (most commonly) horrid characters and wonder why that author was paid.

And it is interesting, because if someone is creating especially pretty prose, no matter how tight it is... that totally distracts me from the story and thus I see it as bad writing. Because I don't think you should be hyper-aware of the style. The story's job is to put a picture in your head not to twirl like a model on a catwalk.
 
posted by [identity profile] gunhilda.livejournal.com at 11:44pm on 18/03/2008
And it is interesting, because if someone is creating especially pretty prose, no matter how tight it is... that totally distracts me from the story and thus I see it as bad writing. Because I don't think you should be hyper-aware of the style. The story's job is to put a picture in your head not to twirl like a model on a catwalk.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. Sometimes the beauty of the language is what makes the story for me as much as the plot and characters. To pick a fanfiction example, take Salieri's stories. I could never, ever write like her, and I am very conscious of her style and language when reading her stories. Her words do stand out and twirl for me, but it is because of their beauty that I love and admire her work.

ETA: Not that I'm saying you're wrong... to each their own, of course. I just don't think your statement holds true for me, personally. :)
Edited Date: 2008-03-18 11:45 pm (UTC)
ext_962: (Default)
posted by [identity profile] surreallis.livejournal.com at 12:24am on 19/03/2008
Well, to each their own, of course. (I'm pretty sure I qualified my statement as my opinion so it doesn't have to hold true for you, but if I didn't I apologize.) I mean, people write it thinking it's excellent so it would stand to reason people would enjoy it. I find it irritating, but I also wouldn't really use Salieri as an example. She has a gift with language and can write an incredibly clear picture with vivid prose, but she doesn't over-do it. She knows how to weave it into straight-forward story-telling that enhances the story and doesn't detract from it.

I have a perfect example of what I'm talking about that I read just this week, but, damn it, it's posted in a flocked community so I'd feel bad posting a sample of it. But, when the sentences are so full of adjectives or metaphoric phrases that you can barely pick the verbs and nouns out of the tangle, I tend to just give up. I'm not necessarily a patient reader. ;)
 
posted by [identity profile] beanpot.livejournal.com at 12:49pm on 18/03/2008
For me, since I started dabbling in writing fanfic, but more importantly since I started reading about writing and watching you all discuss it, my reading eye has become more critical. A few months ago, I picked up two books that were such fanfic cliches, and yet people were spouting them as fantastic and were on best sellers list. I just thought...really?

In fact, most of the bestseller books I tend to be disappointed in them. Either they are formulaic, the characters aren't all that interesting, or the ending is so utterly contrived, I can't stand it. I am reading a really great fiction book right now and am I quite in love with. Will post about it later. Also just finished a great mystery by the author of Gorky Park. In the end, I do tend to read more biographies and non fiction than fiction these days.
 
posted by [identity profile] sharp2799.livejournal.com at 02:16pm on 18/03/2008
I guess I'm lucky in a way. I've been an editor most of my life (mostly nonfiction) and when I read for pleasure, my brain switches off to enjoy the ride. (I think it's something along the lines of "if I'm not being paid, I'm not going to notice it.")

Now, that said, there are things that drive me up a wall and take me right out of a story, spelling being huge. I can't help it. Or when there's a mistake so big it makes my head hurt. (Consider the Norwegian murder mystery that was translated into English and reviewed by the Sunday Times--in a modern-day New York, the author placed a cattle ranch north of Harlem.)

As for tired plot devices, it depends on how much I want to read that comforting, no-surprises line. Sometimes I'll pick up a romance novel knowing that the author won't say anything new and in other circumstances would be boring me to pieces. But in that moment, that's exactly what I want.

As for what the difference it between good and excellent? I agree, it's when it makes me forget I'm reading a story.
 
posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/traycer_/ at 08:29pm on 18/03/2008
I used to read romance novels on a regular basis, but after awhile it got to the point that I already knew what was going to happen, mainly because they were all based on the same premise. I mean, even the characters were all alike. The heroine was always the strong-willed, stubborn beauty who gets into trouble along the way, and the hero was always handsome, generally saves the day and is totally exasperated with the heroine. Gosh, now that I think on it, those were the days. :)

This is why I think the highest praise I can ever give a fic is: "I forgot I was reading a story."

This is a great way to put it! There are quite a few authors out there who can capture my imagination and run away with it, leaving me gasping for more, and even better, prompting more fan fic from me as I take the story past the author's ending. I love it when that happens!

And like you, I have been known to start picking out the errors in the stuff I read now that I am writing more. I once read a mystery novel by a famous author who completely ignored the writing advice of others and did things that newbies are told never to even think of. It was a great novel, but I could finally understand why newbies are told not to do that stuff.

The way I see it, noticing the errors and plot holes is training for our own writing. We learn from their mistakes and even pick up a few pointers on style and techniques to help us polish our work, whether it be fanfiction or original works of art. You have the talent that enables you to see the problems, and that says a lot.
 
posted by [identity profile] gunhilda.livejournal.com at 11:32pm on 18/03/2008
I like your point(s) of distinction, and I agree. If I'm knocked into editor mode, that's a strike against the story.

It's hard to put aside the editor/beta mind, though. I went to some training last week and ended up editing their forms for them...

November

SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
    1
 
2
 
3
 
4
 
5
 
6
 
7
 
8
 
9
 
10
 
11
 
12
 
13
 
14
 
15
 
16
 
17
 
18
 
19
 
20 21
 
22
 
23
 
24
 
25
 
26
 
27
 
28
 
29
 
30